INTERVIEW WITH BOB BOYLE

"There's a point where you have to stop taking in and start putting out. And you can do both simultaneously."

I talked about creativity with Bob Boyle, animator, producer, writer and director. Here's what he said.

Greg Cohen: I just wanna say this one has some personal significance for me, because my two oldest kids grew up watching every single episode of Wow Wow Wubbzy. And they were in it for the cute stories and lessons, but I was in it for the crisp animation. So, I wanna thank you for taking time to speak with me.

Bob Boyle: Sure. Sure. Yeah. No problem. Glad it affected somebody out there.

We’ll get started with questions about you personally, like your projects and personality and habits. So what do you create?

Well, I guess primarily animated projects is what I'm known for creating. I've created a couple of shows, one for Nickelodeon and Disney. Also done some children's books. A couple of those. Done some music videos for Sesame Street. And then all along the way doing my personal artwork as well.

OK. And what are you working on recently that you are excited about?

Animation-wise? I just finished up a project at Nickelodeon called Rock Paper Scissors, which is probably the funniest show I've ever worked on. I didn't create it. There's 2 writers who created the show and I just served as executive producer, mostly on the animation side. That comes out in on February 12, right after the Super Bowl. And so I'm excited about seeing the reaction of that. And then, mostly I've been excited about creating my own artwork, just personal artwork, that I'm trying to get into galleries and things. So that's where my head has been at for the past couple of months.

Awesome. And what is your signature? What distinguishes your work from everyone else's?

I would say probably simple, cute appealing design would be, I guess sort of one of my trademarks. Kind of known, I guess, for sort of this rounded square style of design. And I think just condensing things down to a simple, clear design.

I see a huge Kawaii influence in your work. What other influences are in the mix?

Yeah, I think that's absolutely true. That was a huge part of what led me to the style. I think it was that also because I was exposed to that. Because my wife is Japanese American, I was able to travel to Japan and really absorb that sort of right before it was taking off in the way it has now. So it was kind of exciting to go to Japan and really seek out, find these books that nobody had seen and these toys and little animated things that hadn't made their way to the States yet. I guess it was sort of early days of the internet. 

There wasn't much on the internet, so it was sort of this exciting quest to find all of this stuff and that really influenced my work for sure. And I was also working on Fairly Odd Parents and that was a real hard edge design. It was a lot of straights against curves and I think I was kind of reacting against that because I was drawing that all day. So for my personal work, I wanted to do something a little bit different. Where it's a little bit more round. So I think that's where that sort of rounded square kind of design style came up. And I saw a lot of that in Japanese books and design as well.

When do you do most of your creative work? And why do you think that is?

I think my best work is when I, and I have the most clarity, is in the morning and there's less distractions. I'm a morning person, so I can kind of roll out of bed and get right at it with a pretty clear head. And so, it's just nice that there's no emails. There's no phone calls. There's no meetings. So, if I can get a couple of hours of really good quality time in the morning, that's usually where I get my best work done. I tend to fade towards the end of the day.

How much of your day are you actively engaged in your creative work?

I mean it's kind of a curse where I’m just thinking about whatever I'm working on all the time. I will be in Costco or something with my wife. And she's like, “You're not really here, are you?” And I'm like, “No, I'm here.” She's like, “No, you're thinking about XYZ project or something.” And that's usually the case. 

But I think actively engaged, I usually get going early in the morning. Depends, six or seven until probably break for dinner at 7-7:30. And then if I'm under deadline I'll go back outside to the studio, and do some more work into the night if I have to.

Oh, wow, that's a lot of time.

Yeah. Well, honestly I love it. And my wife is an artist as well, so she kinda gets it, and animation in particular. Well, when I work on animation, there's a lot to do. I mean, it's super fun and creative, but it's also a grind. There's a lot to get through. So it takes a lot of hours. It's definitely like a 12 hour a day sort of job.

These are questions about getting started. Chefs call it mise en place or it's called fertile soil or getting in the mood. How do you set up your environment or conditions to create?

I don't know, I mean, I'm not like a huge believer and I don't need certain lighting or candles or music or anything like that. I think for me is just creating some sort of routine so that like in the mornings, I know I'm gonna have oatmeal and coffee and I'm gonna have my sketchbook or my notepad. And then every day at lunch, I'm gonna go to this little dumpy restaurant, sit in the same booth and have a Chinese chicken salad and work. 

And on Saturday mornings as well, like, OK, I'm dedicating my Saturday morning. That's just so that I know that I don't have to think about anything else. Some people do that, I think like, like Einstein or Steve Jobs with their clothing. They just will sort of wear the same thing over and over. So that's one less thing they have to think about. 

So that I think creating that kind of condition where it's sort of simplifying your life so that you can just be focused in on one thing. Creating routine and finding some sort of space where you're not distracted.

When you're creating something from scratch, how do you get started?

I mean, I think it depends on the project, what it is individually. But I think in general, I think it's best to start with kind of an anything goes sort of approach, sort of blue sky process of lots of “what if”s and “how about this”. And we just, there's sort of no nos in the room. I had a really great process. 

One of the best processes actually was when I was working on the show for Netflix called Chico Bon Bon. And it was very, very loosely based off of a children's book called Chico Bon Bon: Monkey with a Tool Belt. And the only thing that we took from it was it's a monkey with a tool belt who uses his creativity to build things. And then we just took that general idea and ran with it and I started that project with just filling a sketchbook with just drawing, just drawing monkeys with tool belts and what I thought that could be and writing down ideas for what the show could be. What kind of side characters there might be. What sort of world they would live in. 

And again, just not putting any restrictions on it and just free flowing ideas. And then that continued when I worked with a group of other producers and creators on it and we just sat in a room and threw out ideas. We wrote them down on big sheets of paper and stuck them to the wall. Made huge lists. Again, lots of “what if” and “yes and” or “yes but”. It's just combining things. Like, again, just not having any restraints on you. I think it's a really great way to start and generate fresh ideas.

What is your process for building or evolving your creative work?

Mm. I mean, I think it's just iteration. I think for me it's just again, filling up books. Going through that process of again, when I was doing Yin Yang Yo, coming up with that idea, I had the general idea, but then I just, for weeks at a time would just fill up the legal pad with just sort of back story on characters and lore on where they lived and all kinds of things that never showed up in the show, but it was great to clarify in my mind. So I guess creating all of that work, that initial work, and then sort of sifting through it and seeing what rises to the top. 

Maybe get a little bit of feedback from people and see what resonates, or just be in tune with what resonates with you, and what are some commonalities and what feels good? What feels off base? Kind of putting it through a filter and getting it down to the next stage where you get a little bit more concrete feel for things. And then specifying from there and honing in on things from there and just diving deeper and deeper and getting more specific and weeding out the bad ideas and honing in on the good ones.

Do you have any like Legos or building blocks of your creative process? Like sub-routines that you go through. Like if you have any specific processes that you use each and every time consistently.

Mm. I don't think so. I mean, I think again, like I've already kind of said, the commonalities I think are just generating things in sketchbooks and lists and free form writing and just vomiting it all out there. So, I think that's the commonality.

Ok. What percentage of your creative time is spent experimenting?

I don't know. I mean, It's more in that initial phase, the initial phase of everything. Whether it's doing a storyboard or writing a script or coming up with a show concept. It's always just that first part. So I guess, I don't know if I could put a percentage on it, but 25%, and then kind of getting at it. Yeah, it depends on the time constraints also.

What makes one idea more promising than another?

Mm. I don't know. I guess if it just sticks with you. I guess if it's something that really resonates with you and you find yourself thinking about it the next day or the next day or you just can't get that out of your head. I guess it's just kind of a feel thing really. I mean, there's definitely times where you're like, oh, that feels like an idea. That feels like a solid idea. 

And then, yeah, then there's a whole list of other ones that don't. Not that you throw them away, just maybe keep them to the side and maybe they pop up later in combination with another thing. But, yeah, I don't know. I don't know if there's a… And I guess that's part of the magic. It is like knowing what is promising.

How do you know that the creative decisions you're making are right?

That's, mm, that is great. I think we've hit the section of creative magic here. I was like, I don't know. Again, it's sort of feel and then when you test it out, those things can reveal themselves and you can find out like, oh, it's not resonating with others in the way that it resonates with you and then you have to kind of step back and go, “Well, why is that?” And maybe it's just because I'm not communicating it clearly. Is there something that's getting in the way from people connecting with that idea the way I do? It's a hard balance, because you've gotta throw all your passion into this. '

It's tough to know when it's just an idea that you love, and sort of figure out why that is and whether it's worth pursuing or not. 

At what point do you test your assumptions or challenge your creative choices? 

With outside people, I try to have it as formed as concretely as possible before I sort of get any kind of feedback and sort of testing. Just so that I'm not influenced too early in the process. And then you can communicate your idea clearly before getting feedback. 

Sometimes though, when you're like creating characters, there's a thing that I call the pizza test. So if I have a character, if I have a set of three characters, I want to be able to put them in this position, where these characters find a slice of pizza in the middle of the road. And what are they gonna do with that pizza? How are they gonna react to that slice of pizza? And I think if you know how your characters are gonna react in that situation or any situation really, then I think you're on to some strong characters. 

So for example, with the Power Puff Girls, I think they're very clearly defined characters and we put them through the pizza test. Bubbles would find the pizza in the middle of the road and she would treat it like her baby or like a pet or something and try and nurse it back to health or be super, do something super playful with it and innocent. Blossom would do the right thing. She's sort of the leader and the one that follows the rules. So she would probably try to find its owner, find where it came from or report it to the police or something like that. And Buttercup is, she would just walk up and eat it because she's just gross and a kind of a dude in that way. 

So I think if you can, whether it's that scenario or some other scenario, you should be able to test your characters in that way.

That's awesome. How do you distinguish when it's time to test and try new things and go in a different direction or when it's time to dig deeper?

Mm. I don't know. I mean, I think again, it's just you get to a certain point where you think you've got the characters figured out. And then you do those tests. I think you just gotta go through the process of getting some clarity on those characters or a story or whatever it is and just get to a certain point where you feel comfortable with it. And maybe you feel like it's ready. Maybe you can't, you start to be at a point where you can't see it any other way and then you need to either test it through writing a story with these characters or get some external feedback and see what that is. See where the problems arise and then just react to those.

I've seen you mention wanting to work for an older demographic, maybe even adults. What is your plan for reaching that audience?

That might have been, that was probably years and years ago. I barely remember that in my mind actually. So I think I've come to the conclusion, after I pitched a few things actually, that were in a more adult vein and found that that's not my sweet spot. And it was probably after doing a bunch of young preschool shows and shows for younger kids and if you do something for a while, you wanna do something else, but I found that that wasn't something that I was good at. Actually, it wasn't a natural fit for me. So no desire to go down that road.

OK. In finishing projects, how do you know when you're done?

I think it's just similar to when do you test things. Usually the case is, it's the deadline. It’s due. It's like, oh you've run out of time because…nothing's ever really finished. You can always make things better. You can always rethink things. So usually time is the decider on when you're done. Or again, just the point where you can't see it anymore. 

Or you get to the point where you realize that you're making the most minute adjustments that only you would notice. And that sometimes that takes a while to get to that point of self-realization because lots of people will get into this phase where they're just noodling and noodling and noodling. And I think it's one of the things that holds people back is worrying about perfection. And so I think a lot of times it's just don't get into that spot and get the feedback.

Because it's never gonna be perfect. So it's better at a certain point to get to where you think it's clear. It's the vision of what you intended. Get some feedback. Get it out there, and see what it is, and you can always adjust.

And what makes a creative project successful?

I mean, I guess you could say external feedback, if the usual people like it. I think if you're happy with it. You get it out there and it's what you have intended, it's a success, you know? It's hard to get anything creative done and out into the world. So to me that's a success. If I finish a project and it's what I envision, whether the world likes it or not, I feel like it's a success. Of course, it always helps when people out there love it and respond to it, and obviously they'll let you know one way or another.

Where do you find inspiration?

Inspiration, I mean, anywhere really. But like you pointed out where I got the inspiration for Yin Yang Yo from a T shirt at a Tofu Festival in Little Tokyo. The inspiration for Wubbzy, that came from playing with my niece and creating stories with her. I think it's just anywhere. 

When I'm running. The idea for Hugo and the Really, Really, Really Long String came when I was running and I was looking at the power lines and I just thought if I was a kid, I would wonder where those power lines went at the end. Where's the final place that they go? And following that to the end. And obviously like an electrical power line isn't a really kid-friendly thing. So I thought, oh well, what if it was just a string and a kid would naturally wanna follow that string to the end and at the end there's like the telephone pole. There's nothing at the end and at the end of the string there's nothing. 

And really, that's kind of a metaphor for life. It's not what's at the end, it's the journey that you take along the way and the adventures you have. So it's like just running and observing, reading something, a line on the paper, hearing somebody say something in a conversation. I think it's just being aware, for sure. And open. And you have to be open, to have your antennas out to pick up on anything. And I think a lot of times also I get like really great ideas when you're not trying to think of ideas. 

Again, I think that goes back to the running. I wasn't necessarily running trying to think of ideas. But if I go, I'll get ideas in the shower, which is very common. Or just doing things, I think that are very mundane and that you don't have to think about. You're kind of like doing the dishes or something that you're being active but not sitting down trying to bang your head against the notebook, trying to come up with an idea. Like I think that there's a time for that and you need one to create the other. Like you need to sit there and write lists and think and brainstorm and all of that, and then kind of go away and into the world and not think about it, and then let those ideas come to you and they kind of will. I think if you're open to it.

What media like, books or blogs or magazines or podcasts do you recommend on creativity?

I mean, I listen to a lot of podcasts but I guess the one that comes to mind for creativity is there's one called Creative Pep Talk. It's by this guy Andy J Pizza. I'm not sure if you're familiar with it, but I think that's… I'm sure there are others out there. But he's one that really focuses in on creativity and the creative process and gives really actionable things that listeners can do. Exercises and… I don't know. 

I don't really go to podcast for creativity. I'll go more for the business side of art. Or other things outside of art. Yeah. I mean, there's just a ton of books. And with the internet, it's just overwhelming the amount of resources that are out there. 

The one thing I would say is that there's a point. A lot of people that wanna do creative projects, they just constantly fill themselves up with learning and reading. And “I need this resource. I need this book. I need to take this class. I need to do research on this or listen to this podcast”, and they do all of those things which are great. 

But there's a point where you have to stop taking in and start putting out. And you can do both simultaneously, but there's a lot of people that just use it as a crutch to, “Oh, I need to… I need to listen to this and research this, and do all of those things” and they never actually do anything themselves. So, there's always seasons in life for sure and there's like the learning season, the experimenting season, and it's just like the doing season. And I'm a big fan of just learning through the doing, as well as the absorbing from books and podcasts and things like that.

That's me. You are talking about me. I’m the guy who always does more research and asks more questions.

Well I mean, that's an art in itself. I mean like you're doing your own thing. This is a creative project in itself that you… I imagine that it is. I don't know too much about your project. And maybe that's where your interest lies in. Your Venn diagram of creativity of doing and researching and all of that. If you come to this point where you're interviewing people, that's what you're really interested in is the creative process. And yeah, I know everybody's different.

When and where do your lightning bolt ideas occur?

I think like I was saying earlier, it could be running or in the shower. Doing mundane things. Again, just putting yourself out there. It's OK. It's pretty rare that I'll just be writing and then like, a big, big idea will pop into my brain. I think the big big ideas just kind of happen when you're not in a notebook or something like that. 

When you collaborate with others, what is that like?

Well, like I was mentioning with Chico Bon Bon, that was a great creative process just being in the room, blue skying ideas, writing things on a piece of paper, sticking into the wall. It was a similar thing on Wubbzy, just working with the creative directors there, especially on season two. We just had a great room of creative like-minded people with no egos that were just again exploring like, “Yeah, well, what if, then, oh, this would be funny” and “Oh, this would be funny if this happened” or “This isn't quite clear. What if this happened?” 

I think when you can get a really good group of people, where people aren't intimidated, where they're not afraid to throw out ideas and they see that their ideas are valued. That kind of environment is really special, and it happens quite often in animation because animation is a real collaborative sort of process. 

When I was doing the Sesame Street songs and all the songs for Wubbzy, I worked with a great composer, musician and I would write the lyrics and we would have back and forth on that and he would, before I got started on the visuals, I'd say, “Hey, Brad, just send me a list of ideas based on this theme of sharing or not cheating” or whatever the theme was. And so he would just send me just a file of all of his brainstorm download and that was a great starting point. He'd send me a rough sketch of the music and actually, I would send him a very bad hummed version of what I imagine the tune would be and he would send back a beautiful, beautiful version of that song that made sense. So that was a fun collaboration for sure. One of my best ones, most cherished ones.

What role, if any does feedback play in your creativity?

It's huge. I think a lot of people react negatively to feedback, which is understandable. I do too. It's because you've worked passionately on something, getting it to the point where you think it's great, and it's awesome and perfect. And then you show someone and they give you some notes, and that's really hard because you've been seeing it a certain way for a long time and really dialed into it. But a lot of times you can kind of get lost in it too. 

So it's great to have an outside person give you a fresh perspective and you're like, “Oh, yeah, now I see that” or something that was very clear in your head isn't coming out on the page or isn't being communicated clearly. It doesn't mean that it's a bad idea. It just means that you're not delivering it in a clear, concise way. So it helps to get that feedback, like, “Oh, I don't understand what you're trying to say here.” Yeah. And I think a lot of people, that's where people give up. They get feedback and then they're done. They're like, “Oh, they don't understand my vision. They don't get me” and then they just quit. 

And so I think that's part of the greater process, if you can take that note and then find what the note is inside of that note. Like that feedback might be telling you what to do. How to get… Especially from executives where they're saying, “Oh, you should do this to fix that.” But if they're giving me a note, there’s probably a problem there to figure out, what the basic problem is and then figure out a solution in your own way. How you would fix it, not how they would fix it.

What is the hardest part of creation for you?

The hardest part of creation? I don't know. I mean, I think the hardest part sometimes is when you have to reimagine something after you've imagined something in a very specific way. Like again, after you've worked on something for months or years or whatever it is and then getting some feedback and you've got to totally redirect, that can be really difficult. And that usually just takes time, walking away from it, getting some perspective on that, and then coming back at it and that.

What stops your creative flow faster than anything?

Distractions, I think. I think just the phone pinging and or, mm. Yeah, I mean, it's horrible with social media now. Just there's always a distraction if you want it. So, I think those things are hard. Any kind of distraction really. If you wanna get in a good flow with no distractions, that's why I like working in the morning where it's just me.

How do you make progress when you feel like you're blocked or at a dead end?

I think again, just stepping away. Maybe just doing something else. Ok. If you've got another project that you can, another part of the project that you can work on that maybe something more not creative. Some other task that you need to do on that project or just going for a walk. Just doing anything to kind of reset your brain in some way. 

I've never used this, but Brian Eno has the sort of deck of cards, the Oblique Strategies, where if you hit a wall or something or you need some fresh perspective, you pull out one of these cards and it has like a little saying on it that says mm “Do everything in reverse” or “Take the thing that's not working and emphasize that” to see sort of creative prompts that get you to look at the problem in a different way. So whatever you can do, I haven't done that, use those cards. 

But I think I do that in trying to approach things in a different way from a different perspective. Maybe writing from a different perspective or drawing something in the totally opposite way that you have been drawing it. Just kind of scrap it all, so it's an experiment. Try something else. If you're using all circles, try squares. Something like that. Just trying to get any kind of fresh perspective, whether it's a walk or run, shower, or just forcefully taking a different creative path.

How do you avoid ruts and preconceptions?

Mhm. That's hard, especially if you have some success with something. Then it's easy to just get into that rut of all that work. Let's do that same thing on this project, which can work. I don't know. I think again, it's just sort of what we just talked about. It’s just trying to approach things in a different way or taking a break. Trying some sort of new technique or new tools. If you're always using a certain brush, doing another brush. If you use things with outlines, do something with that doesn't involve outlines. 

Sometimes you’re not copying somebody else, but using them as an influence or something to try and get out of your own. You might copy and quote somebody, but it's always gonna be your own. That might launch you into a different direction. Yeah, I don't know. Channeling them.

Yeah. Yeah, I like it. Can you think of a time that a constraint was beneficial to your creativity?

I think constraints are pretty good actually. I think time constraints, as long as they're not completely unreasonable, can be good because otherwise you'll just continue to noodle and noodle, and nothing will ever be perfect. So, having some sort of time constraint or deadline or this is going to air here. I have a gallery show on this date. I mean, even knowing I have to have this by the end of the day or I need this in an hour. Then you do what you can do in that hour and you adjust. So I think those can be good. 

I think sometimes even just giving yourself a constraint, like “I'm only gonna use three colors” would be great because otherwise you've got this whole world open to you and you can get lost in it. So, that really helps me. I've especially, in my personal work lately, I've just been limiting myself to a few colors. A certain color palette so that I can just focus on the ideas and the design and then once I get those things down, then I can move on and I can bring in some other elements and different colors and things like that. 

So I think, yeah, giving yourself constraints is super helpful.

What is a telltale sign that it's time to abandon an idea?

That's always hard. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, anywhere I've ever gotten in my life, it's just from not giving up. When I pitched my first cartoon to this shorts program that Nickelodeon called Oh Yeah Cartoons. I pitched this one project I think seven or eight times, and it was bad because it was not a good story to start with. It was supposed to be seven minutes long. I think it was 15 minutes long. And then I got notes and I just kept coming back and making more adjustments and not giving up and ultimately I think I wore them down and they said, “Well, he's not gonna go away. So let's let him do his short.” B

ut it's hard to know when you should give up and when to push on. Yeah, I'm definitely one for not giving up, but there's a time where I guess if your ideas aren't getting the feedback that they need to get, that you'll just know it's not working so move on. Maybe put it aside. Maybe come back to it in a fresh way. 

So you've mentioned writing music for shows as well as children's books and animation and fine art as well. What do you think different creative fields have in common or is there anything universal?

I mean, I guess the common thread maybe might be problem solving. Because it's all, whether it's a story or a piece of art or a logo design or whatever it is, it's all about sort of solving problems in a creative way. So, I think that that would be the commonality that would go through to everything. Problem solving, communication in some way. Clarity. Yeah, but I think it's ultimately a series of solving problems in a creative way.

OK. And what skill or techniques from a different field would you like to bring to your work?

Mm. I don't think I have any that popped to mind. I've incorporated a bunch of woodworking and mosaics in some of the work that I've done. There's nothing out there. There's things that I kind of would like to try, like, print making and some sculpture and things like that. But to be honest, those seem really more labor intensive than I actually want to do or time consuming and I don't know, just not at that point. So yeah, I don't have anything that's screaming out at me.

Ok. What is the relationship between skill and creativity?

Well, I think sometimes your skill isn't at the level where you can get your creative ideas across. Like, I think a lot of times you'll have a creative idea, but not have the skills to communicate that or to get that project done. And that's I think super frustrating. But a lot of young artists have that where you have an idea in your head but you don't have the skills to get it done. And so I think it just takes time for skill to catch up with your creative mind and your ideas and that just takes a lot of doing over and over again and learning and experience. 

So I think ultimately that if you keep at it, the skill will line up in a way that you can get your creative ideas across. Or you find other ways to.

I have two more questions. Who do you think of, when I say most creative person?

Most creative, I'd say in the past, maybe like Walt Disney was wildly creative, I think. Just on many levels. As an artist, in some regard, although he didn't follow that through, but he obviously had some sort of artistic vision. And then through business and the creativity that he brought to every field of imagination. I mean, that's a big one. Picasso I think in an art sense was unrivaled as far as creativity goes in the art of art making. 

I think currently, a couple of people pop to mind would be Mo Willems is unbelievably creative in multiple fields. Like children's books, he's done films TV, but he's done I think opera and full stage productions and comedy. He's on fine art. There's just nothing that that guy hasn't done at a very high level. And his life is all about creativity. I think he just lives and breathes it. So that's one sort of in my circle I guess that that would pop out. 

I think Jack White of the White Stripes I think is wildly creative. He was a furniture designer. He designed all of his visuals for The White Stripes and the band and then obviously makes wildly creative music in all kinds of genres. And he is a great crafts person as well. Yeah, there are a few examples. I'm sure there's many others.

Ok. Well, you've been very informative and very helpful.

Sorry if I was rambling on which I usually do. But hopefully you can make some sense of that.

No, it was all very honest and very coherent and to the point and very helpful. It was amazing.

Oh great, awesome. Well, if you have any follow up questions, just shoot them my way and I'll see if I can get you some answers.

And Greg, that's cool that you're doing this project. I'm not sure exactly what it's going to be, but I’m very impressed that you got Stefan Sagmeister. That guy is amazing. That's good. He's Mr. Creativity.

He was very informative too. Everybody has their own unique perspective, and when they dish it out, it is a lot of work. And once I aggregate things I'll send it out to everybody so they can benefit from it.

Awesome.

Thank you very much for your time and enjoy that California weather.

Oh, yeah, it's pretty darn good. I'm from the East Coast originally and when I first came out here, I thought I've got to get back to the East Coast. I missed the seasons and all that. And after a couple of years, I thought “No, this is perfect. Why isn't everybody living here?”

Yeah, I'm sitting in a cold rainy car right now, but Chicago gets all four seasons, so I'll take it.

There's something to be said for that as well. Yeah. Well, best of luck.

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